Cloud vewi sunset
Turbulent clouds at sunset

On Beyond UG Krishnamurti

Where UG Went Wrong

UG Krishnamurti (not to be confused with Jiddu Krishnamurti, his nemesis) wanted to have his cake and eat it too: be a materialist and cynic and point out the mess and violence of human society, its inherent conflict which arise from our inner duality, yet say he is not in conflict with anything, and that he was in some special “natural state” of a purely biological nature that happened to him for no reason. Yet he rejects any possible transcendence from mind and society that would take anyone out of the level of conflict, which he recognizes is in essence mind-as-conflict and it’s imposition on nature. In this way he sidesteps and never resolves the inherent conflict in the materialist view: who, or what is observing and harmonious? A thought cannot observe or think. So what perceives the mind and its conflict? From his behavior and philosophy, I suspect he was conflict within himself. His reduction of everything to one level ignores the reality of truth, while claiming to be a kind of truth.

There have been several accounts of UG Krishnamurti’s life – or “UG” as he came to be called – so I will not spend time covering that subject, but go straight to the heart of the matter and examine his philosophy, or teachings.

The graphic novel format book “This Dog Barking: The Strange Story of U.G. Krishnamurti” is the newest offering in that space, and what inspired me to finally write and publish these notes.


This Dog Barking: The Strange Story of U.G. Krishnamurti

At one time I was quite taken by UG Krishnamurti’s views. I read everything that had been written of his talks and about his life, and watched many videos, and all the audio recordings I could find. At the time I was still feeling the conflict between my scientific and materialist outlook and the spiritual experiences I’d had, and the teachings I’d run across. I’d also had an education in philosophy that helped me be adept at critiquing the spiritual ideas that were presented to me as panaceas by teachers and spiritual psychology practitioners. So at that time, UG certainly plugged into that, and helped me to see some of the shortcomings of the religious and spiritual ideas I’d absorbed. At the same time it left me feeling bereft of anything to cure these sense of separation and division, lack of love and belonging to the universe. It removed hope, but not in a good way! It left behind a cynical residue.

A good spiritual teachings is useful towards pointing one to seeing where happiness comes from, what one simply Is, as Being, what life Is, and without false hopes. It directs one to fact. It helps one aim to toward truth and away from false identifications (God vs. Mammon if you will), attachments and empty values absorbed from the world. But UG’s philosophy was a negative one, emphasizing that we can only have, see, or think according to the knowledge we already have, without giving one a clue as to how to be in what he termed the “natural state” (a term he borrowed from other teachings).

It’s a fascinating story, his life. But as far as his teaching (which he disclaimed as a teaching yet he allowed it, had people coming to him, supporting him, wherever he went) he clearly identifies the “problem” as it were: thinking, or the mind, and that self cannot get out of self, and thus all spiritual teachings and practices are self-fulfilling dead-ends that merely perpetuate and even enlarge the mind, just as society, as a projection and creation of mind, is a self-perpetuating survival machine that repeats itself.

But he must have been conflicted himself: one can discriminate a teacher by the fruit the tree bears. I wonder too about the unsubstantiated claims to support his non-teachings (such as his claim that the founders of Eastern religions were “acidheads” in the jungle, or his supposed physical symptoms during his supposed transformations). The test of a legitimate teacher are twofold: are they truly, unconditionally happy, and can they direct you there. He fails on both counts: he doesn’t seem particularly happy or at peace himself, often in angry, hostile reaction in his meetings, and he clearly states he has nothing to teach, and can’t help anyone. I don’t see much kindness, compassion or humility in his behavior, in his angry treatment of guests who question him or comment, at least what I’ve seen in video or audio recordings (though supposedly in private he could be kind – but aren’t we all at times?). In other words, there is some kind of ego operating before and after his supposed experience – as evidence, look at his meeting with Ramana Maharshi and how he projected arrogance onto him.

More fundamentally, he was asking “what is this state?” of enlightenment for decades, before supposedly realizing he was in that state. No wonder he claims it’s biological: his central mistake was thinking it was a state. States are for bodies, for persons, for separate entities. Thus the state of harmonious functioning he talks about would be just the materialist interpretation of being not separate from one’s environment, surroundings, culture, and so forth. Further, and even more fundamental, states come and go. What we are looking for is that which does not change, which is always true and real.

Who or what is experiencing this state? He gets rid of the self by saying there is no central coordinator unless he is answering a question or functioning biologically.

In a nutshell, UG’s mistake was that of the materialists: of mistaking “enlightenment” as state, for a someone, a body. It’s the central mistake of separation. He folds this in with a quasi-materialist unitary view, but overlooks the fact that the materialist view is itself self-contradictory: matter is a concept (or model of the world – one we learned), not an experience, that requires a mind to hold, and is a view we are aware of consciously. Thus his philosophy never really gets off the ground, and always stays at one level. It is superficial in this sense.

He made an observer out of the mind, and later saw that that’s what he was doing: merely a mind observing a mind. In other words he made a separate entity, a two-ness, a duality, and only admitted of one side of it. But how can a mind observe? A mind only has contents, not consciousness. One has to resolve the duality of observer and observed, subject and object either by saying it’s all material (like he does) or it’s all consciousness, like the traditions of Advaita do. Either way it’s One. All one body, one energy, or one observer reality, which  can’t be figured out from the mind. But if there’s only one real observer, how can that really fit with materialism, unless you make incoherent claims like there is no coordinator? That would be chaos, yet there is experience of harmony.

You have to recognize that the observer you think you are (imagine yourself to be) is just a mental model, and image, an idea of the mind. But UG never gets beyond that, as far as what he offers to others.

True, it would be absurd to say that one must practice to be able to perceive, think, feel sensations, just as it would be to say one must practice to regulate blood flow, liver enzymes, heart beating, nerves firing impulses, hearing, seeing, touching, oxygen being converted to energy…

So why do we do all these practices of meditation, yoga, breathing exercises, attention to the body and so forth, in order to get out of the mind stream? We do all this in order to realize at some point that it’s all absurd, a charade. There is not a separate self controlling another self. There is not a special controlling mind controlling the rest of the mind. There is no mind at all except in the mind! You are not two.

My theory is that, UG, an intelligent and sensitive man, was impacted deeply by an intense religious upbringing, education, the hypocrisy he saw, and expectations of others and himself to be an enlightened sage or teacher, like Jiddu. This suffering and the ingestion of too much spiritual data, too much information and culture, and an anger from reacting to the what he saw all around him – the conflict it set up – set the course of his life.

Out of The Trap

While it’s true at the level of the body-mind-world as seemingly separate entities, we are all bound by cause and effect, mere machines as it were, parroting the words of others (as UG often pointed out: no real creativity from the mind), completely conditioned by life (genetics and environment), like robots, there are also ways out of it. (There aren’t really levels, but it’s a way of talking). The belief and sense-feeling of separation, and reacting, emotions, thinking, (and competition, egoism, anger…) all go together. It’s all one movement of energy, if you will ( words to try and pin on “experience”).

The way out is simply and profoundly, the glimpse of one’s true nature, the intelligence of life, life itself: the Self in Eastern philosophies. UG may hint at this at times, but gives no way out, no way towards it. And yes, it’s true that mind and the doer can’t get there (here), but yet we experience what we call glimpses, insights, understandings, moments of grace, when the vertical dimension is allowed, or breaks through. This phenomenon (of the neumenal effect on the bodymind) is given short shrift by UG.

A non-transcendent non-duality is not non-duality at all.

If indeed man’s neurosis is from a society that imposes false values and models on the unique organism as UG says, and with UG the natural organism is now not in conflict with itself and environment (after his “calamity” – his dramatic story of enlightenment) – has “fallen into its natural rhythm” – but at the same time claiming he was not in conflict with society, then the question no one asks is, why not? Why is he not still in conflict with society? It seems to me that UG wanted to have his cake and eat it too: to be a materialist and cynic and point out the mess and conflict of human society, its inherent conflict which arise from our inner conflict, yet at the same time say he is not in conflict with it, and reject any transcendence that would take one out of it. You can’t at the same time be supposedly not in conflict with yourself and perceive and be at one with, participating in, a conflicted society. After all, what we see in a sense is all mind, all projection, playing out in Consciousness. One only ever sees what one is inside.

He conflates the material and transcendent, reducing them to one level (much like the Neo-Advaitists) and wants to have, or claim to have it both ways: his kind of non-duality still requires a way out of conflict if he’s to actually be non-dual. In short, a non-transcendent non-duality is not non-duality at all. It doesn’t matter how much he yells and curses and criticizes and calls others a “filthy bastard”, it doesn’t make sense.

So why write about a dead pseudo-teacher? Because he’s interesting, a very unusual character, with a fascinating history. And he does say true and incisive things at times, and can be entertaining. But I’d suggest looking at the warning label on the pack before you smoke what’s inside, and take it too much to heart…

At best he’s a kind of spiritual drano that helps to flush away nonsense implanted by religions, spiritual teachers, and other ideas as well as practices, and point towards using thinking in a more practical and honest way.

The down side is a potential for cynicism and a materialism that lacks depth. The central conflict of a materialist outlook is not accounting for the looker. To what does the idea of matter, or of a brain appear? These are abstractions away from the immediate reality of sensation, perception and thinking. While UG admits to these experiences, he never explores the question of who knows, or what knows, other than the brain, or the thinking content. But to what does thinking appear? A thought cannot think. A perception cannot perceive. A thought as a result of an observational perception cannot observe.

Food for thought…



  1. john.s on February 7, 2020 at 8:43 am

    While UG admits to these experiences, he never explores the question of who knows, or what knows, other than the brain, or the thinking content.
    This state is a state of not knowing; you really don’t know what you are looking at…………the whole of my being is like a single, big question mark. It is a state of wonder…………………
    Not that there is somebody who is saying “i don’t know;” the state itself says, by itself, “I really don’t know a thing about it.” It is so!

    • meestereric on February 7, 2020 at 1:12 pm

      Hi John – Thanks for the comment.
      Quite so. That “state” of not-knowing is blessed indeed. How one gets there (here) is secondary… it could include encountering UG! Hahaha…
      Are you familiar with Karl Renz? I was watching him last night talk about not-knowing, and find him quite amusing and insightful; he demolishes concepts too, but in a artful and more joyful way, leaving one “not-knowing”.
      Actually, “neither knowing nor not-knowing”, just Being…


      • William Waters on February 21, 2020 at 8:21 am

        Hi Eric….

        I share your appreciation of U. G. Krishnamurti and Karl Renz…

        What is attractive about these guys (to me) is their respective ways of pointing to the fact that being human does not need a “system” and in fact often suffers from our attempts to create one. Freedom and the innate sensibility that arises from it, is just so… We miss it by trying to get hold of it, trying to explain it, and the busyness of acting out the reactive frustrations that appear when we fail to obtain it…

        • meestereric on February 21, 2020 at 10:24 am

          Hi William  – To be clear, when you mention my “appreciation of U. G. Krishnamurti” you mean UG and not Jiddu (JK), correct? I ask because Jiddu talked about “the pathless path” that is beyond systems, but U.G really gave no way out. In fact I think there is a book or essay of his talks entitled “No Way Out”! In UG’s view, we are trapped in the system of thought that Jiddu said or implied we could be free of (if I remember correctly: I’m not an expert on JK’s teachings and it’s been a very long time since I read or listened to him) .

          As far as “being human”, all the non-dualists point to the fact that being human is the problem, not the goal or reality, however you want to say it. Being stuck as it were, in this illusion of a body, of being a separate long-lasting independent entity, a human animal on a planet, in a self-centered universe, is the source of all misery. We are infinite and stubbornly insist on being a finite illusion, feeling and thinking and acting from that sense of separation, the self-made “hell”. The mind gives us no way out. We have words like “consciousness” that are unique in that they exist in consciousness and name it at the same time, but a name is not the thing (or non-thing in this case). What we are is too simple to name or grasp.
          Blah blah blah – there I go again, blabbering…

          Yes, reactiveness is the devil. Keep an eye on that guy, he knows many tricks, spoils the fun. 🙂

          “Your only freedom is to not react”. – Robert Adams

  2. john.s on February 7, 2020 at 8:53 pm


    The knower can survive in not knowing or in knowing, but not in neither not knowing or knowing. karl r

    Yes i have listened to his display over the years…
    seems a quick talker….
    has a smart answer for every question….. like a market trader
    is he just a smart man with a quick wit or more?

    what i found with ug that seems to be missing from most others is that he did his very best to discourage followers…
    and he never tried to make money from this, never made in into a business……

    nearly all the folk running around these days are selling talks and workshops of some kind….
    these things always have a monetary cost attached… its a business venture..


  3. meestereric on February 8, 2020 at 8:26 am

    I would say Karl R. quite a bit more than a smart talker. But you need the ears to hear. If you read some of his responses to The Gospels of Thomas for example, he definitely “saw”.

    It’s more honest to ask for money to do retreats, talks, books, audios, etc., in order to pay for expenses, as long as they are wanted by students, and one’s life seems to be called in that direction, then to run around like UG did decrying spiritual activities as a business and at the same time being supported by one’s supposed non-followers or non-students (and treating them with disdain). “U.G. Krishnamurti enjoyed money of Bollywood actors and in return exchanged his learned knowledge”

    In any case, one has to look at “teachers” or those acting as such on a case by case basis and what’s going on with their attitude and actions towards their calling, students, money, and other objects, rather than make blanket statements. How much is ego operating versus an impersonal relationship to it all?
    Case in point: the sage Robert Adams only allowed some students to support him after he had no choice but to teach after he developed Parkinson’s disease. They found him he didn’t pursue them. And he only wanted a core of about 5 truly devoted to truth, and shunned all attention otherwise. Before that he was avoiding people for decades, moving around, and was working as a carpenter in Oregon, an unknown, before developing Parkinson’s. It was spontaneous.

    My thesis stands, that while UG was an interesting character with some valid critiques of the spiritual scene, he was disingenuous in regards to his actions versus what he said, but more importantly, pathological overall, evidenced in his arrogant outlook and treatment of others. He was a wounded soul as it were.
    Did any of his students become enlightened, happier? They may have led more “realistic”, practical lives but so what.

    Spiritual teachers charging money? It’s an interesting question. There’s no black and white answer, despite UG’s callow attitude and the beliefs of many. There’s no rule, and it’s none of my business in any case. But one can use a little bit of wisdom and see if they are a pseudo guru or not.

    If someone says they were contacted by a UFO from Phesarius and the aliens gave him the secret of the Blue Beam and he will make you enlightened in a weekend, but it costs $1200 (and you aren’t allowed to leave), I’d be careful.

    On the other hand if someone is expressing something that resonates in the silence of your heart as self-evident and concords in its pointing with what sages have been saying for thousands of years, then it is your freedom to listen and give something if you want.

    It’s a matter of having the discrimination to tell a false teacher or sharer of wisdom from a true one, and spending (or donating) one’s money wisely. But even there, who am I to judge or legislate how other people spend their money or who they choose to follow or listen to? If they are totally taken with some nonsense, and want to learn about it, that is their path and what they need. It’s a free country. Regardless, the universe is doing exactly what it’s supposed to at this moment.

    One judges a tree by the fruit it bears. In the case of UG, I applied the teachings, and it did not make my relations more loving (just the reverse) nor my life more peaceful, happy and beautiful. But it was a stage in getting rid of some religious and scientific beliefs, seeing how some “spiritual” organizations operated, and being practical in a worldly sense for a little while. But one grows out of him.

    There’s nothing new under the sun. What this means with respect to non-dual teachings – the nadir of genuine paths – is that while there are as many unique expressions as their are confessors or singers of truth, the core reality has to be the same, or it is not a genuine pointing. And one of the things all the genuine sages say is, they can’t give it to you, because it’s who you are, or what you are: the unnamable. Therefore you must find it in yourself: the freedom, love and beauty. It’s not out there.

    But if you love expressing your experience, or feel compelled to, and are drawn to see how “others” express it, there’s nothing wrong with gathering pointers. Artists and musicians learn from each other, and enjoy it…

    I don’t make any money from writing in this blog (or posting photos I make), and pay for the hosting and domain out of my own pocket, and spend countless hours for no reason other than I enjoy it and love exploring and expressing truth (or trying to), being a vehicle when I can. I’ve never even asked for donations (or added a button for it) to help defray the costs, but perhaps I should given my circumstances, not being retired, having no savings or investments, and being “in the red” overall as they say…


  4. john.s on February 8, 2020 at 11:06 am


    you surely know more than i about this subject…
    i am grateful that you have shared your views..
    and i am always willing to learn more…


  5. Aaron on March 26, 2020 at 10:34 am

    Pretenders all.


  6. David on March 26, 2020 at 10:44 am

    You are trying to understand UG.

    Good luck to you.

    You can’t understand UG.

    No one can.


    fuck that wink


    bark bark bark

    I don’t understand UG and I never will.

    But UG is the closest I have come across to this

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